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Okay. There's a lot of nutters on Youtube.

by Albert_Soviets @ 2008-04-29 - 21:56:41

nd this one is particularly nutty. This must be the single most ham-fisted, poorly thought out pieces of propaganda I have ever seen.


If you watch it you will see the same pastor from the other video make what is to my mind an innocuous comment. He says "we have supported state terrorism against Palestinians and against black south Africans. That is all he says. Now, again you may agree or not agree. Up to you. However, in what sense can that be described as "Anti-Semitic"? Or to be more precise, anti Jewish? How does that connect with what Minister Farrakhan says about the Jews? Now I have no time for Farrakhan. I think the man is a demagogue who has nothing of practical value to say about empowering blacks in the US. He's a conservative, political reactionary and has made genuinely anti-semetic remarks.

But has Edward Said? Now, I am not expert on Said, would not claim I was. I do recall however that Said was a supporter of a two-state solution for Palestine and Israel. Some on the left (I count myself amongst them) support this view, some do not. It strikes me as being realistic, moderate and reasonable. According to Wikipedia (undated), a site that I admit is not the best source of factual or impartial information he is quoted as saying

I have spent a great deal of my life during the past 35 years advocating the rights of the Palestinian people to national self-determination, but I have always tried to do that with full attention paid to the reality of the Jewish people and what they suffered by way of persecution and genocide. The paramount thing is that the struggle for equality in Palestine/Israel should be directed toward a humane goal, that is, co-existence, and not further suppression and denial.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Said#Pro-Palestinian_activism)

Cannot for the life of me see why some would regard Said as anti-Jewish. If you know, go ahead and tell me.

What about the Arab American Action Network? Well, I have no evidence that the organisation is anti-Semitic. The accusation that it's founder was connected to the PLO, as far as I know is hotly contested and indeed denied by the founder. Actually I would not mark him as an anti-Semite if it did turn out to be the case. The PLO carried out a militant armed struggle against Israel for a single secular Palestinian state. I do not believe that this cause or their struggle was motivated by a hatred towards Jews as a people. However, as I say, I would be prepared to admit it if I am wrong.

There are other parts of the video that I am in no position to speculate upon. I know absolutely nothing about the Woods Fund for instance. I doubt very much that Obama supports an armed struggle against the American state - that would not make much sense given that he is running for office. I can't even say I have any truck with the man myself. He's another demagogic windbag as far I am concerned. I do take issue however with trying to imply however that any criticism of Israel or support for the Palestinian people marks someone out as an anti-semite. Not only is that a disgusting insult upon many Jews who hold an anti-Zionist position it also obscures any chance to have a reasonable debate over the issues. You can't really argue over the merits of a two state solution or single secular Palestine or whether the Isralis have or haven't committed atrocities if someone is just screaming anti-Semite over and over again. And the juxtaposition of even an ultra reactionary like Farrakhan with the Nazis. Yes I know what Farrakhan said about Hitler. He was wrong and it was a bloody ridiculous and offensive thing to say. It doesn't equate him with that regime.

Anyway, if anyone wants to point out why I am wrong, please, go ahead. I may be missing something important.


 
 

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Good bloody grief!! Some people out there are very very scared of Obama!! I hope this wasn't concocted by the Clinton's because if it is was it's a real dirty game they're playing...I think we're heading for some sort of showdown with Israel and the situation out there, which is going from bad to worse...all this video proves, if made with Jewish support or actually made by Jewish people, is that it's desperately trying to prevent this confrontation...and maybe Obama is the one they fear the most because maybe capable of doing it...Hilary Clinton won't...

Phil [Visitor]

2008-05-11 @ 03:23

If I were an American voter I'd put my cross in Clinton's box (no pun intended). First, she is the usual politico granted, but to be fair, no one really knows how she'll act as president, whereas Obama is being touted and is touting himself as a kind of 'non' political animal who'll bring a fresh perspective to Washington politics. Well, I've heard that before and it was crap then and I suspect it'll be crap now. Anyone who believes an American president can be a free agent is living in la-la land.

Second, the Republicans, in my view, will surge to victory if Obama is the Democratic candidate and I'd sooner have a wonky Democrat in power than another Republican. Unfortunately Obama's past is full of skeletons, the stuff talked about above is some of the more silly and easily dismissed guff.
He has not been a wise politician. His ties to landlord racketeering, false or 'sexed-up' will see him crucified. The Republicans have kept a low profile on that and a few other sticky financial issues surrounding Obama but come a general election, they'll fire all sorts of crud at him and a lot will stick.

So coldly, and yes, cynically, I hope Hilary wins (it's not looking too good for her at time of writing) as what I believe the least worst outcome.

I think there'll be a Republican president in any case. I imagine that there a lot of Americans who baulk at the idea of a female president almost as much as a black one. And both candidates have faced a really spiteful right-wing onslaught, just judging by how many anti-Hilary or Obama t shirts and bumper stickers there are. Of the two, I would prefer Obama in power though, for three reasons. 1. I suspect that like her husband, she's a cold hearted sociopath. 2. She is on record as a war mongerer. 3. The right detest Obama more, and it would make them really unhappy to see him in power. For me, choosing between the two represents a choice of being shafted by a 12 foot cactus or an 11 1/2" cactus though. It's still going to fuckin' hurt. Besides, at least the brain dead, spineless democrat cheerleaders of the American centre-left know where they stand with a republican president. When there's a Democrat in power they all keep schtum no matter what the Democrat does (see Bill Clinton).

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